The Bible as truth
Tonight I was preparing a presentation on the Bible. How can we as Christians today fight the popular view of Christianity being portrayed by the media and fundamentalist? Marcus Borg does a wonderful job of explaining how one who has trouble with the views of popular Christianity can survive in today’s world. He explains in his book “The Heart of Christianity” that one does not have to read the Bible literally to take it very seriously. In fact to read the Bible literally will never allow the Bible its full voice. Borg’s emerging paradigm describes the Bible using the adjectives, historical, metaphorical, and sacramental.
Historical- The Bible is a product of 2 historical communities, ancient Israel and the early Christian movement.
He goes on to explain that it is a human, not a divine product. This is where the fundamentalist would cry foul, but Borg explains that this in no way denies the realities of God. Rather, it sees the response of these two ancient communities to God.
Metaphorical- Everyone knows what a metaphor is and some see it as not being true. Borg explains that a metaphorical reading of the Bible allows for deeper meaning and while not factually true it can be true to the heart. Borg speaks of metaphorical truths not metaphorical fictions. Borg’s last point is not to “believe” in a metaphor—but to “see” with it. Thus the point is not to believe in the Bible—but to see our lives with God through it.
Sacramental- “the Bible is a sacrament, a human product whereby God become present to us.” Until the end of time, God will be able to speak to us through the Bible and we need a relational approach to it.
As Christians we must study the Bible and look for the real truths in the message not look for errors, or reasons for exclusion, hate, or to use it as a weapon.
I will leave you with a few lines Borg uses to explain the metaphorical approach
A line a catholic priest once said in a sermon “The Bible is true, and some of it happened”
A Native American storyteller’s line about the beginning of his tribe “Now I don’t know if it happened this way or not, but I know this story is true”
posted by ROMA @ 7:54:00 PM
6 Comments:
If you say so,
I think that a life here on Earth focused on an afterlife is missing the point. Jesus talked about how to make life here better. He was not focused on the "afterlife" like you and todays fundamentalist Christians. I do not have a problem with you believing what you want to believe but when you and our government try and force your views on others then I have a problem. Our government was not formed so one religion could force their beliefs on everyone else. It was for the exact opposite reason.
Live and let live, and if you can get someone to see your point of view and convert them then fine, but not with government help or tax payer dollars.
I more than welcome the debate about todays Christianity, the Bible and God, but only if you are truly willing to explore and listen to my point of view.
I know this is difficult for literalist, they have interpretted the Bible their way to make life easy for them and are usually unwilling to even hear another way.
It has been interpreted. That is the real point. Every time it has been translated it was interpreted. The words today do not mean the same thing they did to Jews when it was written. To read the bible literally as it is written today is to read the bible wrong. Even if I were to give you the fact that God wrote the Bible, which I am not willing to concede. You would be putting a huge box around God by saying he can only write literally. The Bible is full of many different prose and to take them all literally does not do God or the writers justice.
I assume you believe that the world is about 6,000 years old and that Adam and Eve were real people. Please, science proves these things wrong, but that does not make the message not true. Just because you give up the literal meaning does not mean you have to throw out the Bible.
Sorry for the delay in answering, been very hectic here.
What are you trying to say? Jesus mentioned an afterlife? So that does not mean it was his main intention or concern while on Earth or that is to be our whole focus.
The concept of an afterlife does not even get mentioned until the book of Daniel. That is in response to people living a life devoted to God being killed and seemingly getting nothing for it. So they said they must get a reward after death, because they did not get one here. Should that be our concern? Should our focus in this world be to get to the next?
The problem I have with a literal reading is it leads to a heaven as the reward mentality. It takes away God's ability to grant Grace. One should live their life as a response to God's grace, not just to hope to get it.
I assume you are on some kind of point system and I hope you have accrued enough Adam. Obviously you got big points for confessing Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and for spreading the word of God. What happens if when you get to heaven? The gates do not open because you put limits on God's grace. God did not think you were truly preaching His word and you actually pushed more people away from Christianity and God's son than you brought in?
I think you are going to heaven and I think since you know this you should be a beacon for other people to look to as to how to live in this world. I think everyone around you should know that you have it together and try your best to treat everyone fairly and help those in need. Is arguing the point of whether a woman has to bring an unwanted pregnancy to full term doing this? Is pimping everything President Bush puts forth a way to help the needy in this country. Have you ever railed against a Bush proposal? Are you for the War in Iraq? Are you for the corporate pandering that the Republicans are doing? Are you for a minister being allowed to say "You must vote the way I tell you to or get out of this Church?" I just can not push people away from Christ. Not for any reason.
‘The reward is a result of God’s grace. Jesus clearly stated “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the father, but by Me" (John. 14:61). ‘
----I have a big problem with Jesus quotes to begin with. I am to believe that he was quoted correctly 40-70 years after his death. I know that fundamentalist Christians have used this verse for exclusion of all other religions. What if the verse was not meant to be interpreted the way they have? What if the real quote was-“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the father, but by my way.”
And what was Jesus’ way- Radical inclusion and social justice. When how Jesus lived his life is in contradiction to your Bible, Jesus wins.
‘Jesus makes it quite plain He did not come here to make peace on earth verse 34"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.’
----Why could Jesus not bring peace on earth at that time? He was a man. His followers wanted him to be the “Messiah” but Jesus constantly refused the title because it was a political title, and meant that he would free the Jews from Roman oppression of the day. His speaking out against the oppression and the Jewish leader’s alignment with an exclusionist way of life is what killed Jesus.
”This should be a life changing event and your greatest desire will become to serve God and not your own selfish desire.”
----If you do not see the Republicans and their real supporters as the most selfish group of individuals in America you have your head in the sand.
Psalm 139 13-16
13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
----Beautiful poetry—Has nothing to do with life begins at conception
”Just a couple of verses, God values human life that’s why Jesus died. God is the creator of every human life, to take a life that is not guilty is not only wrong it’s murder. Definition of murder:
1) law transitive and intransitive verb to kill another person deliberately and not in self-defense or with any other extenuating circumstance recognized by law
2) transitive verb to kill somebody with great violence and brutality
3) transitive verb to put an end to or destroy something”
---1-I do not think that it is a life until it can live outside of the mother’s womb by itself.
2. Do you really believe that overturning Roe v Wade is going to stop women from choosing to end a pregnancy? The answer is NO. The rich will still be able to go oversees or have their family physicians come and take care of it in a safe manner, but the poor will be forced into unsafe conditions.
As for your definitions of murder- The war in Iraq meets all the definitions of murder that you provided. You can go on and on about the extenuating circumstances, but the facts remain. We were lied to to get us there, and we are still being lied to as to why we are there. We are there for the oil. Bush does not care about freedom for Iraqis. If he cared about freedom instead of kissing and hand holding with the Saudi Prince we would be doing something about the oppression in that society, and the terrorist support that is there. There were no terrorist in Iraq before we went, or weapons of mass destruction.
”I disagree with bush on a regular fairly often.”
---When?
“Are you for the War in Iraq?”
Yes----WHY???????????????????????????????
“Are you for a minister being allowed to say, you must vote the way I tell you to or get out of this Church?”
--It happened last week in North Carolina, and the ministers during the last election had no right to say from the pulpit that voting for Kerry was a sin because of one issue. Bush is killing more people everyday with his policies than Kerry would have by being pro-choice. Why is it that more abortions have happened under Bush than Clinton? Answer—Bush promotes ignorance (abstinence only) and his policies lead to poverty which breeds hopelessness.
”I have never heard this said, but like the rest of us they have the right to say what they think even if they are wrong.”
---They do not have the right to preach politics from the pulpit or back one party over another. I agree they could have that right if they want to give up their tax exempt status.
Matthew 13:36-43
36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."
37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
----Beautiful metaphor of truth. I don’t see this as the end of days. This is happening right now. If you live life the way Jesus taught, you will have abundant life and you will shine.
There you go taking things out of context (like you do the Bible) and condemning me for saying I don’t believe that Jesus could have been quoted correctly.
The Central theme is not man sins. The central theme is we are living in exile, away from the Lord, and are constantly trying to find his love and live “the way” here on earth. If everyone would stop worrying about what was going to happen to them after they died and just tried to live a relational existence here on Earth with the Creator, the afterlife would take care of itself. That is Jesus’ message. I’ll quote for you, “Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.”
What is the central theme?
1. We can not live up to God’s standards; therefore we live East of Eden.
2. We are in slaves and needs God.
3. We are in the wilderness and need God.
4. We are in exile and need God.
5. We are lame and need God.
6. We are blind and need God.
7. We are hungry and need God.
8. We are thirsty and need God.
Basically the theme is we are not whole without God. We need God’s help daily and need to search for him here, believing the unbelievable is not the answer. Blindly walking through this world is not the answer.
What would God want of us today? The answer: a relationship, which requires us to seek him out, and love what he loves, which is everything.
Did you have a comment or did you just want me to enlighten you as to the meaning of these verses?
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